I think the Blue Cities will unfortunately never decide to secede. The defining characteristic of their ideology is perhaps the moral authority to force other people to live, act and indeed believe as they do. If they were willing to go off and do their own thing while leaving everyone else alone, well, we wouldn't be here :)
Nope. They never will secede ... so that puts the onus back on the Red Staters ... who never will secede either. Which means, ah, things are just going to get better on their own, I guess.
I am afraid you are correct, but I am curious to see what happens with the counties seceding and trying to join other states. If that works out it might become a middle route for a sorta-session. Leave all the blue cities with a couple counties around them and the red states getting bigger. Not ideal.
It's all moot. Like I said a "thought exercise." I do think in the future (whether Trump wins or "Joe Biden"), the S-word will start coming up more, but that's all it will be - a little more vocal talk. The scary scenario is the same leaders and organizations will be leading us all ... into more disaster probably. That Censorship and WEF boot on our throats is going to push down harder ... But I guess we'll all get used to this. Many people will be grateful for the more draconian efforts to "protect" people.
Well, I think next year's election will be interesting in the context of the Washington counties trying to secede and join Idaho. If things go well for Republicans and an R is in the Whitehouse (Trump or other) it might go through. If the D's have control, they might put a foot down to stop the whole thing.
Since there are not super clear rules and processes as to how these things happen, what occurs will become a pretty important precedent, and we might see a lot of counties, almost all rural, splitting off. Some western MD counties want to join WV, as they are much more culturally aligned with each other, for example.
I dunno, could be interesting, but generally the "getting worse" ratchet seems to move by slow but steady clicks, I am afraid. :(
Thanks, Doc. I didn't know counties in Idaho and Maryland had broached a form of "secession" and joining more like-thinking neighboring states. That would set a precedent that might start spreading. So of course, the Status-Quo protectors would want to nix that possibility/precedent. This might be real "leverage" people at the county-level have to show how they really feel. Very interesting.
Don't thank me too much, I kind of buried the lede thinking of Washington while neglecting to mention that Oregon has had 12 counties vote to leave. ( https://thepostmillennial.com/wallowa-becomes-12th-oregon-county-to-seek-secession-to-idaho for an overview). They have been at this for a while, as have bits of Washington state, but the Oregonians seem to have been maintaining the momentum. I tend to blend those two state's eastern halves together in my mind... in both cases, however, the people seem to think Idaho is the Way to Go.
Yeah, 'Almost wish I were planted previous to the ugly scene. God knows best. If they press harder on the throat, that's on them. God will require Justice, and He will not be swayed from exercising it, we all can be sure of at least that one thing. These bottom dwellers will be fodder for the fires of Holy Vengeance and then finally, the entire universe, with all its distant inhabitants as well as those redeemed from the earth will be free from sin and all evil! What a thing to consider, after such wickedness, eh?
Imagine if Trump wins and enacts an Executive Order to help Blue areas secede with Federal funding.. Call it "Operation: Buh-Bye" also known as "Operation: Don't Let The Door Hit You On Your Way Out"
That's right, they will never secede because the want everyone else to pay for all their great plans. What they fail to realize is "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
One intriguing idea I’ve come across is the ancient idea of city-states. Historically, these have been huge population centers capable of handling their own governance (and defense!) The best known modern city-states are undoubtedly Vatican City (home of the Pope) and Singapore (a sprawling island city covering 720 sq km. and housing nearly 6 million people).
While regular city-states are independent, I see no reason that a modern city-state of Portland couldn’t still be under the preview of the federal government but politically separate from the rest of Oregon — which is already trying to escape.
With this idea, cities get additional powers (closer to what states have), but have to deal with their borders themselves. Obviously cooperation between governments would be called for in some instances (as happens right now), but generally we’d let Portland be as weird as it wants — but it can’t affect the rest of the state.
Speaking of counties....this is kind of interesting (or, maybe impossible would be a more accurate descriptor)....
When Obama steamrolled to victory in 2008 ..he racked up 875 counties and a record 70 million votes.
But in 2020 Brandon set the record for fewest counties won with 477....but, hahahahaha, somehow got 81 million votes(!) .....way, way less counties than Obama ...but way, way, more votes! Amazing.
On that note, the current county-level "ban the jab" ordinance movement seems to be picking up steam. It's something to watch. I imagine the MSM will paint it as a bunch of kerazies in the Trumpista hinterlands. But, no, I spent some watching the public comments before the county commissioners on rumble: some of the people proposing these ban the jab ordinances and speaking publically in support of these bans are highly informed and articulate, and they have sheafs of documentation, scientsts, doctors, and lawyers to back to them up. It's not going to go away. And I think we'll be seeing a lot more of these, and similar "counter narrative" legislation.
Of course everyone reading this knows exactly what a true blue covidian would think of a "ban the jab" ordinance.
All that said, if the RFK campaign can achieve a tipping point, and it may sometime this year or next, I expect that a lot of the true blues will flip to espouse his views about the covid jabs. Not that I'm cynical. Just a reader of history. Funny how most people's ideas and beliefs line right up to hook onto the gravy train.
In my contemplations of 3-D chess moves, the only "move" I see possibly reducing the level of national polarization is RFK, Jr. getting elected. I think most Trump supporters actually admire his principles and would give him a chance, especially if he starts really draining the swamp (just like Trump's main campaign message). And, like you say, some Democrats might come around to him especially if and when more big Covid lies are proven to be Big Covid lies.
So the Democrats who would threaten to move to Canada if Trump was elected might remain in America for at least four more years.
"Joe Biden" being elected would cause a national emergency in my opinion. I don't see how it's possible he could be elected given his own (real) scandals and obvious dementia, but if he is the "chosen one" by the Deep Staters, I guess he will be re-elected. People better brace for that possibility.
Blue cities will never secede. Firstly, leftists can’t ever just walk away. They have a pathological need to oppress, control, and persecute everyone else. “Live and let live” is not in their philosophical lexicon. Rather, it’s “Submit or die.” Secondly, there is the practical matter that most of these blue cities are surrounded by red, which makes them vulnerable if they were separate political entities. Thirdly, those red counties are where everyone gets their food. People forget that cities only have about three days of food on hand. If you own all the land around a modern city, you can strangle it quite easily. Look what the Soviets did to Berlin and the huge amount of expense the US had to pay to keep the Berlin airlift going until the Soviets finally gave. Doing that again would require the blue cities to have both food and fuel and airplanes. That said, I do think there will be states that secede over the next 20 years, perhaps individually or in contiguous blocks. I don’t think we’re going to reunite as a nation. The leftists won’t let us.
I agree. The Blue Counties aren't going to secede ... for the reasons you provided. But it might fix a lot of our problems and perhaps save some bloodshed if they did.
If the Blue Counties don't secede, those other states are going to have to decide if the S-word is the only "solution" that might save their families or those corny founding principles of "liberty" and "freedom."
My guess: The Powers that Be KNOW no Red States are NOT going to secede. That would take a lot of guts and some leaders like Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and George Washington ... and our nation doesn't produce those type leaders any more.
So they know they've got us just where they want us.
The author and all the commenters, apparently, seem to think that there is no broader, deeper phenomenon going on here -- an internationally coordinated conspiracy of which American Democrats (and their RINO partners) are but one (albeit important) cog.
Don’t be too sure. Leaders like those rise to the occasion. And the public is starting to distrust and throw out our traditional milquetoast leaders. One of Trump’s selling points is that he’s non traditional and willing to break down the calcified system. (Whether you believe he can accomplish that or whether that’s the right thing to do or not is another question.) Further, the people are starting to take these sorts of processes into their own hands. It wouldn’t surprise me if there weren’t referendums on the ballot in multiple states on the issue of secession. Now, I think those would be non binding in the first cases, but I think it’ll happen. Finally, nobody thought Brexit was going to happen until it did. When the only alternatives are separation or buying into craziness, people will separate.
Great article. Here's a thought experiment. What if all the red county residents vote and agree to voluntarily leave the US military to join county militias as peacekeepers? Make sure there's no trouble, you know?
To pay for it the red counties could form county chartered banks. Instead of paying our federal taxes we pay the same amount into trust accounts in these banks to pay our militias. Anything left over can be used for county services or, better yet, returned to the people.
While the dust settles from these changes we can think about what kind of agreement we want to form between the counties to deal with things like war, peace, treaties and international trade.
It would be interesting to see how any "new" states or counties would organize themselves. I don't think any new country would need much of a military (maybe about the same type military as Switzerland). I actually don't think Russia or China (or Mexico or Canada) are going to invade Alabama and Florida. You'd need militias though to deter the conscripted people from Illinois from invading, say, Kentucky.
I'd use the savings from the military industrial complex to fund a new Social Security system. That's another reason people won't secede - they are afraid of losing their benefits and social security they paid into their whole lives.
"Some of my readers educated me by pointing out it’s really not a “Red State” vs. “Blue State” dichotomy. It’s actually a Blue City vs. Red Town/Hinterlands dichotomy we now have in America."
True but that's because the elite want them in cities. The elite know that it's far easier to control/influence people if they make a large urban area their domicile. it's all about management and location. For those seeking to dictate the world it's going to be easier to do that if the vast majority of the people are held up within large urban areas. just think about how cities have far more restrictions on what people can do than rural towns or counties do. The city is really a local reflection of the National level government; it's all about power & control. In the town/county system its mainly about just keeping tings running but within the city it's about power & control just as it is at the national level.
Cities will soon (effectively) be prisons w/o fencing.
Bill: as others have noted, the division is blue cities vs the rest of us which is why we will never be able to vote ourselves out of this mess. The blue cities which are blue, populous and have long since learned how to rig elections will never again cede power. I will still vote (hope springs eternal) but when I am rational I recognize that the voting system has been totally corrupted and as a consequence, the republic has been lost. God help us.
Tucker Carlson keeps making your point (my point too) ... If we really have lost "faith" in the validity of elections and our voting system, that's probably THE final straw (or maybe the effort to ban cash and go to a digital currency).
So we all need to watch closely what happens if and when "Joe Biden" (or his designated successor) wins the 2024 presidential race. I predict half the country would say: "No damn way" this is a legitimate result.
But what are those people going to do? They are NOT going to secede. If and when they have to turn in their cash and use the digital currency payment system, they'll just HAVE to do this. (Just like most people HAD to get a "vaccine.") They won't have any choice.
They will have to do this ... because the president and all the key people behind the curtain will tell them they have to do this ("for your own good" of course) ... And these leaders will be able to say this and make this happen ... because they figured out how to rig the elections.
So: They've almost got to rig the elections in order to finish the rest of their unfinished agendas. That is .... All these steps/reforms/chess-board moves go together.
"Secession" is the solution that would nuke all these agendas - the final piece of leverage citizens might possess - but that's not a real option because that would require a lot of guts to put forward. Ten percent of the population might be willing to do this ... but you'd have to have at least 60 percent of citizens who think the same thing ... and that's not going to happen.
Half the country might hate or fear The State on some level, but they don't want to risk living their lives without their Nanny protecting them. (They don't want to risk losing their Social Security, their federal pensions, their government jobs, etc.)
... So, in this post, I gave some of my reasons why I'm convinced secession will not happen.
But more people will start talking about it - probably not on social media! But in their dens and at bars.
What makes more sense is to just abide by the Constitution, which states what the Federal Gov't *can do* (it's not a lot), and the rest is left up to the States. Of course, this will never happen either, but we wouldn't be having these problems if the Federal Gov't abided by the Constitution.
This process has been underway now for some time. Just look at net population (+/-) in these "Blue" areas compared with "Red"...
There is a fantastic book on this topic that is worth the time to read written by academics to in detail explore this very issue:
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States: How Taxes, Energy, and Worker Freedom Change Everything
by Arthur Laffer, Stephen Moore, Rex Sinquefeld, and Travis Browne
Written in 2014, it is quite prescient on these very issues. The book
explains why eliminating or lowering tax burdens at the state level leads to economic growth and wealth creation. A passionate argument for tax reform, the book shows that even states with small populations can benefit enormously with the right policies. The authors’ detailed exposition evaluates state and local government policies impact on a state’s relative performance and economic growth overall, backed up with economic data and analysis.
Facts don’t lie. But they point clearly to the failure of so-called progressive tax schemes designed more to curry favor with selected constituencies than to create an economic system that rewards individual wealth for hard work and entrepreneurial risk-taking.
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States is a detailed and critical look at income taxation across the nation, and drills down into an analysis of the economic growth or malaise that results from tax policy. Arguing eloquently that a state cannot tax itself into prosperity, just as the impoverished cannot spend themselves into wealth, the authors point out what many inherently know but often fear to say out loud. The book provides detailed quantitative analysis, and discusses the policy variables that can have enormous effects on the financial well-being of states and individual residents, such as:
Personal and corporate income tax rates
Total tax burden as a percentage of personal income
Yes, thats interesting! however, the south still loved their slaves, but again history probably would have revealed, that slavery was already on its way out and would have been replaced by the industrial revolution of machinery likely sooner than anticipated.
What percentage of adults in the South actually owned at least one slave? But people can and do argue the "slavery issues" of being the main reason for the war or not. I don't think anyone in America owns any slaves today though. So if there was a national split, it would be over some other issues. I'd say about 50 issues that piss*d enough people off to say, "screw it."
staying on the war, according to one author, the vatican was pushing for war to destabilize the nation in order to enable other nations to carve up parts of the American continent. Also some believe Lincoln and the catholic church were at great odds with each other specifically the Jesuit arm of the Vatican. Lincolns assassin Booth and accomplices of Surratt were tied to roman church and the event could be pictured as political and religious revenge. history is a deep hole and these events might be just as deep of the covered over with lies for both Kennedy assassinations.
the left will not countenance others leaving the tribe. This is why USSR and chinese commies force at gunpoint for people to stay and reside in their prison and when they try to escape, shoot them on the spot or throw into prison. This is why blue states will with force, call out the US military to 'save the union'. The original civil war did not start out about some nobel cause like ending slavery but to keep the south from seceeding..."Save the union!" was at the point of invading federal troops forcing others to stay in the Union!
My late father was a huge War Between the States history buff. He always said the South should have just freed the slaves when they seceded. That would have made it clear what the war was really for: "You can check in, but you can never leave."
Good work Bill. Your mental gymnastics.. even though only as a 'thought exercise' are impressive.. Always another angle isn't there? As an original member of the last world empire, now buckling under the weight of the woke, and having experienced that what you do, we do about 20 years later, I'm living in hope that the outcome of red and blue here will someday mimic the outcome of red and blue there... though we do have a plethora of other colours on our palette!..
Thanks, Tim. My main take-away is that - whatever happens with the next election - we're going to have even more "polarization" of the population. Or: Can someone argue that if Trump wins the Blue County people are going to just sit back and keep their anger to themselves? Or, the opposite: If "Joe Biden" wins, the people in 2,500 Red Counties are just going to shrug their shoulders and not become even more agitated than we already are?
The wild card is if Kennedy is elected? That's actually the one scenario both sides might be able to live with ... or at least say, let's give the man a chance and see if any real positive changes happen?
But the Blue City people will do everything they can to keep Kennedy from being elected (as much as they will to keep Trump from being elected). They don't understand that Kennedy's election might keep any "secession" talk muffled a while longer.
Basically, I think the S-word is the real "elephant in the room." It's also the course of action that I think most scares the Deep State. How could they get more control if 50 to 80 percent of the nation they want to control ... opted out of their nation (and thus was no longer under their control)?
Fortunately, they've intimidated any leaders who might lead that effort. There are no would-be Thomas Paine or Patrick Henry's out there to rally against the corrupt crown or "tyranny." So they've already nipped that threat in the bud.
I have been talking about secession for a while now, but without going into so many details and without knowing that it was a taboo word. Not that I care about it being a taboo... LOL! I just kept saying that I wished it were geographically possible to break the country into two, thus, sacrificing its power on the world stage, because, I guess, the size matters when it comes to being the world's greatest power! Maybe, not the most important factor, but it does... :-) I would always say that I wished it were possible, let's break the country into United Red States and United Blue States and then see which way the migration goes (More likely, from blue to red, right? Right? LOL!) But it is not possible... It's just blue West Coast,+East Coast and the red in the middle. When I look at the map of counties, It becomes even more complicated... So what do we do? My wish would be to outlaw the radical leftist parties on the federal level (How do we do that? They are hiding under a name "democratic party") and get our cojones back to start pushing harder against the crazy left, on everyday level, locally. I hope we are not at the point of no return, when the collusion of the government and corporations is complete, because that would mean we live in a fascist society, and we are not too far from that!
We've GOT to really "drain the swamp." The swamp is so dang massive, though, and nobody in it wants it to be drained. You have to start with the Military Industrial Complex - and then the Censorship Industrial Complex - and all the "Intelligence" agencies and then move hard to purge every leader in the Science/Big Pharma Industrial Complex.
Every mainstream news organization needs to be exposed and go bankrupt. It's a tall wish list.
RFK, Jr. is targeting all of these organizations, which is why he must be the No. 1 threat to the Establishment. Maybe Trump will do better with his second try to drain the swamp? But I don't think "they" are going to allow Trump to be elected again. I think they really feared DeSantis more, but they've already finished off his campaign before it really got started.
RFK, Jr. might be our best hope if we think "democracy" can self-correct. Some people keep saying we might get a Trump-Kennedy ticket, which would be un-beatable, but I don't think Kennedy is interested or I don't think Trump would let RFK, Jr. steal his limelight ... but maybe I'm wrong.
I keep coming back to what I wrote months ago - One way or another, this might be the most important presidential election perhaps in U.S. history.
Think about it: How would 50 percent of the nation react if "Joe Biden" is re-elected?
How are the liberals going to react if Trump is re-elected?
Either possible result is going to polarize the country even more ... which means the S-word will be heard a lot more.
Bill, look at the task you described… The deep state is too deep, the swamp is too “swampy”… That is what makes me so depressed (Besides the fact that I was born a pessimist… Or I am just a realist?). I am sure Trump knows now what to do. I am also sure that DeSantis’ campaign is far from over—don’t discount him so early! I keep fighting with my own about DeSantis (I am not really a conservative, as Jordan Peterson said about himself, too, it’s just that “the reason seems to be on the right”), telling people not to fall for all kinds of rumors, that DeSantis would make a great president, the guy has a spine of steel and wouldn’t bend over for anyone, for any donor. Trump/DeSantis was many people’s dream ticket—that would have been really unbeatable! Unfortunately, big egos of both men got in the way. As to RFK Jr., I like him a lot, too, learned a lot about him lately: I know he is an honest guy, decent guy, but still… He is very much on the left… Finally, yes, we got to the point where we have one shot left—the elections of 2024. If Republicans don’t find their spines and don’t prevent a massive leftist fraud, there will be no place for people like me, immigrants who looked at this country as the shining city on the hill, to go…
From one pessimist to another. We don’t have one more shot. The next presidential election will be stolen. Mail in ballots, harvesting votes, letting/paying illegal immigrants to vote, electronic voting machines. The fix is in. The Dems will NEVER give up their power. Why do we even give money to their campaigns? That’s just another way to fleece Americans financially. They don’t need our money. Anyway, it’s ridiculous at this point to think this next election will save America. We’re done. FJB and every freaking democrat out there who hates America and hates each one of us.
WOW, a kindred spirit… but even a worse pessimist than I am… You know what it is? If you don’t have even a glimmer of hope, it’s really hard to go on… Plus, maybe, I was lucky to meet some unbelievable patriots (recently, about 2 months ago), optimists, fighters, who don't give up—Dr. McCullough, Steve Kirsch, Tom Renz. Tom Renz made me cry after he was done talking, so I am thinking, there are still some incredible people in this country, maybe, we can claw our way out of this hole. What makes it harder is not that democrats are going to cheat massively again (They know it is their last chance, too), but the fact that the leftists came to power simultaneously in the entire Western world. A few years ago, when I didn’t know as much as I know today, when anyone mentioned globalists, NWO, etc., I would just shrug my shoulders and say, “OK, I get it, a bunch of rich people want to rule the world—they already do, WTH else do they want?” Oh, how wrong I was… They don’t even hide it today… That is the scariest part for me… Another scary thing is, just by changing the leadership, we can’t defeat the left—they have already brainwashed few generations… I feel like I am only the second person in the country (Besides DeSantis himself) who thinks that cultural war is as important, if not more important, than economy! Economy can be fixed easier than people’s brainwashed heads… With all that being said, from one pessimist to another, hang in there, sister! We still want to live, it’s too soon to cross our arms on our chests, lie down and die!🙂
I love the Reader Comments! With this thread, I’ve been intrigued by reports of people in certain counties who are lobbying/advocating for the right to secede from their state and become a part of a next-door-neighbor state they believe more closely aligns with their political views.
The first thought here is this: In a “democracy,” why can’t citizens vote to do just this? If the vast majority of citizens in one county want to do this - and the state they want to join has no problem with this - why can’t this take place?
The second thought gives us the obvious answer: Because the state they’d be leaving would lose all their tax revenue and their control of these people.
The third thought, as readers point out, is that this would set a terrible “precedent.” If voters in one county can voluntarily leave a state they don’t like, couldn’t other counties (and entire states) do the exact same thing?
Answer: Yes … unless this little emerging trend is nipped firmly in the bud.
Bottom-line: We know this can’t be “allowed” to happen … so it won’t happen.
Bottom-line II: You are stuck in the State (or nation) you live in.
Unless, I guess, people decide to “vote with their feet” and move to another state or county … which actually millions of Americans have been doing in recent years. People are fleeing CA, NY and NJ in record numbers … moving to states like Florida, which now has record tax receipts (while CA and NY, NJ are going to be facing never-ending budget deficits from losing their tax-paying citizens).
Bottom-line III: In the future, I don’t see any serious secession movement happening (but I don’t rule this out) … However, millions of Americans will continue to vote with their moving vans. Some of these families are actually locating to my state of Alabama (as Florida might be filling up too fast). I wish I owned some rural land in my county!
I think the Blue Cities will unfortunately never decide to secede. The defining characteristic of their ideology is perhaps the moral authority to force other people to live, act and indeed believe as they do. If they were willing to go off and do their own thing while leaving everyone else alone, well, we wouldn't be here :)
Nope. They never will secede ... so that puts the onus back on the Red Staters ... who never will secede either. Which means, ah, things are just going to get better on their own, I guess.
I am afraid you are correct, but I am curious to see what happens with the counties seceding and trying to join other states. If that works out it might become a middle route for a sorta-session. Leave all the blue cities with a couple counties around them and the red states getting bigger. Not ideal.
It's all moot. Like I said a "thought exercise." I do think in the future (whether Trump wins or "Joe Biden"), the S-word will start coming up more, but that's all it will be - a little more vocal talk. The scary scenario is the same leaders and organizations will be leading us all ... into more disaster probably. That Censorship and WEF boot on our throats is going to push down harder ... But I guess we'll all get used to this. Many people will be grateful for the more draconian efforts to "protect" people.
Well, I think next year's election will be interesting in the context of the Washington counties trying to secede and join Idaho. If things go well for Republicans and an R is in the Whitehouse (Trump or other) it might go through. If the D's have control, they might put a foot down to stop the whole thing.
Since there are not super clear rules and processes as to how these things happen, what occurs will become a pretty important precedent, and we might see a lot of counties, almost all rural, splitting off. Some western MD counties want to join WV, as they are much more culturally aligned with each other, for example.
I dunno, could be interesting, but generally the "getting worse" ratchet seems to move by slow but steady clicks, I am afraid. :(
Thanks, Doc. I didn't know counties in Idaho and Maryland had broached a form of "secession" and joining more like-thinking neighboring states. That would set a precedent that might start spreading. So of course, the Status-Quo protectors would want to nix that possibility/precedent. This might be real "leverage" people at the county-level have to show how they really feel. Very interesting.
Don't thank me too much, I kind of buried the lede thinking of Washington while neglecting to mention that Oregon has had 12 counties vote to leave. ( https://thepostmillennial.com/wallowa-becomes-12th-oregon-county-to-seek-secession-to-idaho for an overview). They have been at this for a while, as have bits of Washington state, but the Oregonians seem to have been maintaining the momentum. I tend to blend those two state's eastern halves together in my mind... in both cases, however, the people seem to think Idaho is the Way to Go.
Yeah, 'Almost wish I were planted previous to the ugly scene. God knows best. If they press harder on the throat, that's on them. God will require Justice, and He will not be swayed from exercising it, we all can be sure of at least that one thing. These bottom dwellers will be fodder for the fires of Holy Vengeance and then finally, the entire universe, with all its distant inhabitants as well as those redeemed from the earth will be free from sin and all evil! What a thing to consider, after such wickedness, eh?
Ray
This is the reality of the situation. The blue areas NEED everybody to be on board with their plans, because parasites can't live on their own.
Exactly.
It's a shame too, because it would be awesome if they would secede; I'd help them move.
"I'd help them move"
This!!! A hundred times, this!
Imagine if Trump wins and enacts an Executive Order to help Blue areas secede with Federal funding.. Call it "Operation: Buh-Bye" also known as "Operation: Don't Let The Door Hit You On Your Way Out"
That is a given just by looking at the map. Blue areas wouldn’t survive.
That's right, they will never secede because the want everyone else to pay for all their great plans. What they fail to realize is "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
100% correct
Yep! The country is overwhelming red, with tiny blue dots scattered around. That's why my "solution" was city states!
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/ancient-problems-require-ancient
One intriguing idea I’ve come across is the ancient idea of city-states. Historically, these have been huge population centers capable of handling their own governance (and defense!) The best known modern city-states are undoubtedly Vatican City (home of the Pope) and Singapore (a sprawling island city covering 720 sq km. and housing nearly 6 million people).
While regular city-states are independent, I see no reason that a modern city-state of Portland couldn’t still be under the preview of the federal government but politically separate from the rest of Oregon — which is already trying to escape.
With this idea, cities get additional powers (closer to what states have), but have to deal with their borders themselves. Obviously cooperation between governments would be called for in some instances (as happens right now), but generally we’d let Portland be as weird as it wants — but it can’t affect the rest of the state.
I also approve of the city state idea. We talked about it a bit https://dochammer.substack.com/p/tonic-discussions-10-and-11-national
There are a few other city states around too. It is a pretty good system in a lot of ways.
Did you mean Portland would be under the perview of the feds? Auto correct?
Basically, Portland would interact with the feds more like Oregon does now. Portland would have the basic equivalent of 'states rights'.
Speaking of counties....this is kind of interesting (or, maybe impossible would be a more accurate descriptor)....
When Obama steamrolled to victory in 2008 ..he racked up 875 counties and a record 70 million votes.
But in 2020 Brandon set the record for fewest counties won with 477....but, hahahahaha, somehow got 81 million votes(!) .....way, way less counties than Obama ...but way, way, more votes! Amazing.
https://roederer.substack.com/p/the-democrats-went-down-to-georgia
I didn't know that. Thanks for this non-trivial trivia!
https://twitter.com/Jikkyleaks/status/1687733258208038913?t=B8wG90yOBw6VOsWv2jq53A&s=19
Much to ponder here. Thanks for this.
On that note, the current county-level "ban the jab" ordinance movement seems to be picking up steam. It's something to watch. I imagine the MSM will paint it as a bunch of kerazies in the Trumpista hinterlands. But, no, I spent some watching the public comments before the county commissioners on rumble: some of the people proposing these ban the jab ordinances and speaking publically in support of these bans are highly informed and articulate, and they have sheafs of documentation, scientsts, doctors, and lawyers to back to them up. It's not going to go away. And I think we'll be seeing a lot more of these, and similar "counter narrative" legislation.
Of course everyone reading this knows exactly what a true blue covidian would think of a "ban the jab" ordinance.
All that said, if the RFK campaign can achieve a tipping point, and it may sometime this year or next, I expect that a lot of the true blues will flip to espouse his views about the covid jabs. Not that I'm cynical. Just a reader of history. Funny how most people's ideas and beliefs line right up to hook onto the gravy train.
In my contemplations of 3-D chess moves, the only "move" I see possibly reducing the level of national polarization is RFK, Jr. getting elected. I think most Trump supporters actually admire his principles and would give him a chance, especially if he starts really draining the swamp (just like Trump's main campaign message). And, like you say, some Democrats might come around to him especially if and when more big Covid lies are proven to be Big Covid lies.
So the Democrats who would threaten to move to Canada if Trump was elected might remain in America for at least four more years.
"Joe Biden" being elected would cause a national emergency in my opinion. I don't see how it's possible he could be elected given his own (real) scandals and obvious dementia, but if he is the "chosen one" by the Deep Staters, I guess he will be re-elected. People better brace for that possibility.
Blue cities will never secede. Firstly, leftists can’t ever just walk away. They have a pathological need to oppress, control, and persecute everyone else. “Live and let live” is not in their philosophical lexicon. Rather, it’s “Submit or die.” Secondly, there is the practical matter that most of these blue cities are surrounded by red, which makes them vulnerable if they were separate political entities. Thirdly, those red counties are where everyone gets their food. People forget that cities only have about three days of food on hand. If you own all the land around a modern city, you can strangle it quite easily. Look what the Soviets did to Berlin and the huge amount of expense the US had to pay to keep the Berlin airlift going until the Soviets finally gave. Doing that again would require the blue cities to have both food and fuel and airplanes. That said, I do think there will be states that secede over the next 20 years, perhaps individually or in contiguous blocks. I don’t think we’re going to reunite as a nation. The leftists won’t let us.
I agree. The Blue Counties aren't going to secede ... for the reasons you provided. But it might fix a lot of our problems and perhaps save some bloodshed if they did.
If the Blue Counties don't secede, those other states are going to have to decide if the S-word is the only "solution" that might save their families or those corny founding principles of "liberty" and "freedom."
My guess: The Powers that Be KNOW no Red States are NOT going to secede. That would take a lot of guts and some leaders like Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and George Washington ... and our nation doesn't produce those type leaders any more.
So they know they've got us just where they want us.
The author and all the commenters, apparently, seem to think that there is no broader, deeper phenomenon going on here -- an internationally coordinated conspiracy of which American Democrats (and their RINO partners) are but one (albeit important) cog.
Don’t be too sure. Leaders like those rise to the occasion. And the public is starting to distrust and throw out our traditional milquetoast leaders. One of Trump’s selling points is that he’s non traditional and willing to break down the calcified system. (Whether you believe he can accomplish that or whether that’s the right thing to do or not is another question.) Further, the people are starting to take these sorts of processes into their own hands. It wouldn’t surprise me if there weren’t referendums on the ballot in multiple states on the issue of secession. Now, I think those would be non binding in the first cases, but I think it’ll happen. Finally, nobody thought Brexit was going to happen until it did. When the only alternatives are separation or buying into craziness, people will separate.
Great article. Here's a thought experiment. What if all the red county residents vote and agree to voluntarily leave the US military to join county militias as peacekeepers? Make sure there's no trouble, you know?
To pay for it the red counties could form county chartered banks. Instead of paying our federal taxes we pay the same amount into trust accounts in these banks to pay our militias. Anything left over can be used for county services or, better yet, returned to the people.
While the dust settles from these changes we can think about what kind of agreement we want to form between the counties to deal with things like war, peace, treaties and international trade.
It would be interesting to see how any "new" states or counties would organize themselves. I don't think any new country would need much of a military (maybe about the same type military as Switzerland). I actually don't think Russia or China (or Mexico or Canada) are going to invade Alabama and Florida. You'd need militias though to deter the conscripted people from Illinois from invading, say, Kentucky.
I'd use the savings from the military industrial complex to fund a new Social Security system. That's another reason people won't secede - they are afraid of losing their benefits and social security they paid into their whole lives.
"Some of my readers educated me by pointing out it’s really not a “Red State” vs. “Blue State” dichotomy. It’s actually a Blue City vs. Red Town/Hinterlands dichotomy we now have in America."
True but that's because the elite want them in cities. The elite know that it's far easier to control/influence people if they make a large urban area their domicile. it's all about management and location. For those seeking to dictate the world it's going to be easier to do that if the vast majority of the people are held up within large urban areas. just think about how cities have far more restrictions on what people can do than rural towns or counties do. The city is really a local reflection of the National level government; it's all about power & control. In the town/county system its mainly about just keeping tings running but within the city it's about power & control just as it is at the national level.
Cities will soon (effectively) be prisons w/o fencing.
Great points. Thanks!
Bill: as others have noted, the division is blue cities vs the rest of us which is why we will never be able to vote ourselves out of this mess. The blue cities which are blue, populous and have long since learned how to rig elections will never again cede power. I will still vote (hope springs eternal) but when I am rational I recognize that the voting system has been totally corrupted and as a consequence, the republic has been lost. God help us.
Tucker Carlson keeps making your point (my point too) ... If we really have lost "faith" in the validity of elections and our voting system, that's probably THE final straw (or maybe the effort to ban cash and go to a digital currency).
So we all need to watch closely what happens if and when "Joe Biden" (or his designated successor) wins the 2024 presidential race. I predict half the country would say: "No damn way" this is a legitimate result.
But what are those people going to do? They are NOT going to secede. If and when they have to turn in their cash and use the digital currency payment system, they'll just HAVE to do this. (Just like most people HAD to get a "vaccine.") They won't have any choice.
They will have to do this ... because the president and all the key people behind the curtain will tell them they have to do this ("for your own good" of course) ... And these leaders will be able to say this and make this happen ... because they figured out how to rig the elections.
So: They've almost got to rig the elections in order to finish the rest of their unfinished agendas. That is .... All these steps/reforms/chess-board moves go together.
"Secession" is the solution that would nuke all these agendas - the final piece of leverage citizens might possess - but that's not a real option because that would require a lot of guts to put forward. Ten percent of the population might be willing to do this ... but you'd have to have at least 60 percent of citizens who think the same thing ... and that's not going to happen.
Half the country might hate or fear The State on some level, but they don't want to risk living their lives without their Nanny protecting them. (They don't want to risk losing their Social Security, their federal pensions, their government jobs, etc.)
... So, in this post, I gave some of my reasons why I'm convinced secession will not happen.
But more people will start talking about it - probably not on social media! But in their dens and at bars.
What makes more sense is to just abide by the Constitution, which states what the Federal Gov't *can do* (it's not a lot), and the rest is left up to the States. Of course, this will never happen either, but we wouldn't be having these problems if the Federal Gov't abided by the Constitution.
I'm going to go ahead and declare this the "Post of the day!"
Bill
Great article.
This process has been underway now for some time. Just look at net population (+/-) in these "Blue" areas compared with "Red"...
There is a fantastic book on this topic that is worth the time to read written by academics to in detail explore this very issue:
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States: How Taxes, Energy, and Worker Freedom Change Everything
by Arthur Laffer, Stephen Moore, Rex Sinquefeld, and Travis Browne
Written in 2014, it is quite prescient on these very issues. The book
explains why eliminating or lowering tax burdens at the state level leads to economic growth and wealth creation. A passionate argument for tax reform, the book shows that even states with small populations can benefit enormously with the right policies. The authors’ detailed exposition evaluates state and local government policies impact on a state’s relative performance and economic growth overall, backed up with economic data and analysis.
Facts don’t lie. But they point clearly to the failure of so-called progressive tax schemes designed more to curry favor with selected constituencies than to create an economic system that rewards individual wealth for hard work and entrepreneurial risk-taking.
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States is a detailed and critical look at income taxation across the nation, and drills down into an analysis of the economic growth or malaise that results from tax policy. Arguing eloquently that a state cannot tax itself into prosperity, just as the impoverished cannot spend themselves into wealth, the authors point out what many inherently know but often fear to say out loud. The book provides detailed quantitative analysis, and discusses the policy variables that can have enormous effects on the financial well-being of states and individual residents, such as:
Personal and corporate income tax rates
Total tax burden as a percentage of personal income
Estate and inheritance taxes
Right-to-work laws
I may just reread it again, soon!
This all passes the common-sense test as well. Sounds like a great book.
Yes, thats interesting! however, the south still loved their slaves, but again history probably would have revealed, that slavery was already on its way out and would have been replaced by the industrial revolution of machinery likely sooner than anticipated.
What percentage of adults in the South actually owned at least one slave? But people can and do argue the "slavery issues" of being the main reason for the war or not. I don't think anyone in America owns any slaves today though. So if there was a national split, it would be over some other issues. I'd say about 50 issues that piss*d enough people off to say, "screw it."
staying on the war, according to one author, the vatican was pushing for war to destabilize the nation in order to enable other nations to carve up parts of the American continent. Also some believe Lincoln and the catholic church were at great odds with each other specifically the Jesuit arm of the Vatican. Lincolns assassin Booth and accomplices of Surratt were tied to roman church and the event could be pictured as political and religious revenge. history is a deep hole and these events might be just as deep of the covered over with lies for both Kennedy assassinations.
the left will not countenance others leaving the tribe. This is why USSR and chinese commies force at gunpoint for people to stay and reside in their prison and when they try to escape, shoot them on the spot or throw into prison. This is why blue states will with force, call out the US military to 'save the union'. The original civil war did not start out about some nobel cause like ending slavery but to keep the south from seceeding..."Save the union!" was at the point of invading federal troops forcing others to stay in the Union!
My late father was a huge War Between the States history buff. He always said the South should have just freed the slaves when they seceded. That would have made it clear what the war was really for: "You can check in, but you can never leave."
Good work Bill. Your mental gymnastics.. even though only as a 'thought exercise' are impressive.. Always another angle isn't there? As an original member of the last world empire, now buckling under the weight of the woke, and having experienced that what you do, we do about 20 years later, I'm living in hope that the outcome of red and blue here will someday mimic the outcome of red and blue there... though we do have a plethora of other colours on our palette!..
Thanks, Tim. My main take-away is that - whatever happens with the next election - we're going to have even more "polarization" of the population. Or: Can someone argue that if Trump wins the Blue County people are going to just sit back and keep their anger to themselves? Or, the opposite: If "Joe Biden" wins, the people in 2,500 Red Counties are just going to shrug their shoulders and not become even more agitated than we already are?
The wild card is if Kennedy is elected? That's actually the one scenario both sides might be able to live with ... or at least say, let's give the man a chance and see if any real positive changes happen?
But the Blue City people will do everything they can to keep Kennedy from being elected (as much as they will to keep Trump from being elected). They don't understand that Kennedy's election might keep any "secession" talk muffled a while longer.
Basically, I think the S-word is the real "elephant in the room." It's also the course of action that I think most scares the Deep State. How could they get more control if 50 to 80 percent of the nation they want to control ... opted out of their nation (and thus was no longer under their control)?
Fortunately, they've intimidated any leaders who might lead that effort. There are no would-be Thomas Paine or Patrick Henry's out there to rally against the corrupt crown or "tyranny." So they've already nipped that threat in the bud.
I have been talking about secession for a while now, but without going into so many details and without knowing that it was a taboo word. Not that I care about it being a taboo... LOL! I just kept saying that I wished it were geographically possible to break the country into two, thus, sacrificing its power on the world stage, because, I guess, the size matters when it comes to being the world's greatest power! Maybe, not the most important factor, but it does... :-) I would always say that I wished it were possible, let's break the country into United Red States and United Blue States and then see which way the migration goes (More likely, from blue to red, right? Right? LOL!) But it is not possible... It's just blue West Coast,+East Coast and the red in the middle. When I look at the map of counties, It becomes even more complicated... So what do we do? My wish would be to outlaw the radical leftist parties on the federal level (How do we do that? They are hiding under a name "democratic party") and get our cojones back to start pushing harder against the crazy left, on everyday level, locally. I hope we are not at the point of no return, when the collusion of the government and corporations is complete, because that would mean we live in a fascist society, and we are not too far from that!
We've GOT to really "drain the swamp." The swamp is so dang massive, though, and nobody in it wants it to be drained. You have to start with the Military Industrial Complex - and then the Censorship Industrial Complex - and all the "Intelligence" agencies and then move hard to purge every leader in the Science/Big Pharma Industrial Complex.
Every mainstream news organization needs to be exposed and go bankrupt. It's a tall wish list.
RFK, Jr. is targeting all of these organizations, which is why he must be the No. 1 threat to the Establishment. Maybe Trump will do better with his second try to drain the swamp? But I don't think "they" are going to allow Trump to be elected again. I think they really feared DeSantis more, but they've already finished off his campaign before it really got started.
RFK, Jr. might be our best hope if we think "democracy" can self-correct. Some people keep saying we might get a Trump-Kennedy ticket, which would be un-beatable, but I don't think Kennedy is interested or I don't think Trump would let RFK, Jr. steal his limelight ... but maybe I'm wrong.
I keep coming back to what I wrote months ago - One way or another, this might be the most important presidential election perhaps in U.S. history.
Think about it: How would 50 percent of the nation react if "Joe Biden" is re-elected?
How are the liberals going to react if Trump is re-elected?
Either possible result is going to polarize the country even more ... which means the S-word will be heard a lot more.
Bill, look at the task you described… The deep state is too deep, the swamp is too “swampy”… That is what makes me so depressed (Besides the fact that I was born a pessimist… Or I am just a realist?). I am sure Trump knows now what to do. I am also sure that DeSantis’ campaign is far from over—don’t discount him so early! I keep fighting with my own about DeSantis (I am not really a conservative, as Jordan Peterson said about himself, too, it’s just that “the reason seems to be on the right”), telling people not to fall for all kinds of rumors, that DeSantis would make a great president, the guy has a spine of steel and wouldn’t bend over for anyone, for any donor. Trump/DeSantis was many people’s dream ticket—that would have been really unbeatable! Unfortunately, big egos of both men got in the way. As to RFK Jr., I like him a lot, too, learned a lot about him lately: I know he is an honest guy, decent guy, but still… He is very much on the left… Finally, yes, we got to the point where we have one shot left—the elections of 2024. If Republicans don’t find their spines and don’t prevent a massive leftist fraud, there will be no place for people like me, immigrants who looked at this country as the shining city on the hill, to go…
From one pessimist to another. We don’t have one more shot. The next presidential election will be stolen. Mail in ballots, harvesting votes, letting/paying illegal immigrants to vote, electronic voting machines. The fix is in. The Dems will NEVER give up their power. Why do we even give money to their campaigns? That’s just another way to fleece Americans financially. They don’t need our money. Anyway, it’s ridiculous at this point to think this next election will save America. We’re done. FJB and every freaking democrat out there who hates America and hates each one of us.
WOW, a kindred spirit… but even a worse pessimist than I am… You know what it is? If you don’t have even a glimmer of hope, it’s really hard to go on… Plus, maybe, I was lucky to meet some unbelievable patriots (recently, about 2 months ago), optimists, fighters, who don't give up—Dr. McCullough, Steve Kirsch, Tom Renz. Tom Renz made me cry after he was done talking, so I am thinking, there are still some incredible people in this country, maybe, we can claw our way out of this hole. What makes it harder is not that democrats are going to cheat massively again (They know it is their last chance, too), but the fact that the leftists came to power simultaneously in the entire Western world. A few years ago, when I didn’t know as much as I know today, when anyone mentioned globalists, NWO, etc., I would just shrug my shoulders and say, “OK, I get it, a bunch of rich people want to rule the world—they already do, WTH else do they want?” Oh, how wrong I was… They don’t even hide it today… That is the scariest part for me… Another scary thing is, just by changing the leadership, we can’t defeat the left—they have already brainwashed few generations… I feel like I am only the second person in the country (Besides DeSantis himself) who thinks that cultural war is as important, if not more important, than economy! Economy can be fixed easier than people’s brainwashed heads… With all that being said, from one pessimist to another, hang in there, sister! We still want to live, it’s too soon to cross our arms on our chests, lie down and die!🙂
Well said! Kindred spirits. And yes, there are SO many incredible people who have risked everything to get the truth out. May God bless them.
This article at Zero Hedge today is "on topic."
https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/nancy-pelosi-declares-america-will-cease-exist-if-trump-becomes-president-again
I love the Reader Comments! With this thread, I’ve been intrigued by reports of people in certain counties who are lobbying/advocating for the right to secede from their state and become a part of a next-door-neighbor state they believe more closely aligns with their political views.
The first thought here is this: In a “democracy,” why can’t citizens vote to do just this? If the vast majority of citizens in one county want to do this - and the state they want to join has no problem with this - why can’t this take place?
The second thought gives us the obvious answer: Because the state they’d be leaving would lose all their tax revenue and their control of these people.
The third thought, as readers point out, is that this would set a terrible “precedent.” If voters in one county can voluntarily leave a state they don’t like, couldn’t other counties (and entire states) do the exact same thing?
Answer: Yes … unless this little emerging trend is nipped firmly in the bud.
Bottom-line: We know this can’t be “allowed” to happen … so it won’t happen.
Bottom-line II: You are stuck in the State (or nation) you live in.
Unless, I guess, people decide to “vote with their feet” and move to another state or county … which actually millions of Americans have been doing in recent years. People are fleeing CA, NY and NJ in record numbers … moving to states like Florida, which now has record tax receipts (while CA and NY, NJ are going to be facing never-ending budget deficits from losing their tax-paying citizens).
Bottom-line III: In the future, I don’t see any serious secession movement happening (but I don’t rule this out) … However, millions of Americans will continue to vote with their moving vans. Some of these families are actually locating to my state of Alabama (as Florida might be filling up too fast). I wish I owned some rural land in my county!